Original text can be found on http://www.naias.com
North
American International Auto Show (NAIAS)
DESIGN CONFERENCE CALL
Moderator: John McElroy
December 21, 2005
3:30 pm ET
John McElroy: Good afternoon everybody. I’m John McElroy. I’m sort of looking at who’s all logged on right now. I think I know most of you and you know most of me but just in case you don’t. I’m the host of Autoline Detroit and also do reports on WWJ and Detroit Market.
We’ve got an interesting little conference call going this afternoon. We’ve got three top names in design, Tom Gale who I don’t think needs any introduction but just in case was the head of design at Chrysler. We have Stewart Reed who has got all kinds of experience and will be getting into some of that but right now out at Art Center in Pasadena, California. And Joel Piaskowski of Hyundai who has got also quite a background of design in the automotive industry having been at General Motors, including stints at Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Opel and Isuzu and has been with Hyundai since the beginning of 2003.
We’ve got them here to talk about design as sort of a precursor to the North American International Auto Show which is entirely appropriate because it is such a design heavy show. Over 60 new vehicles are introduced at the show typically and oftimes nearly half of them are concept cars. The reason that we’ve got the three guys I just mentioned – Tom Gale, Stewart Reed and Joel Piaskowski – is that they each represent one of the three design programs that will be held at the Detroit show.
Tom Gale is very much involved with the new EyesOn Design Awards. Stewart Reed is heading up the Michelin Challenge Design program. And Joel is tied in with the AutoWeek Design Forum. I’m going to get each one of them to talk a little bit about what they’re doing and then we’ll get into questions from everybody on line here and again you just have to hit star and the number one on your telephone to get into the line, the queue, to ask questions.
Tom let me start with you and the EyesOn Design awards. What is it and what’s the purpose of it?
Tom Gale: Well EyesOn Design has become a brand basically for the Detroit Institute of Ophthalmology and the Detroit Institute has been great supporters of design over the years. And these EyesOn Awards are a chance to offer a premier award for design. We’ve got a spectacular jury including my other two mates on the call this afternoon. Most of us have been friends and associates over the years and it’s an opportunity to gather designers like really none other. We’ve got all of basically the current and the past heads of design. It’s inclusive.
We’d like to get everyone from around the world. And we think it’s important, these awards are very important because it’s an award of your peers and we’re going to be looking at basically all of the new entries, whether they’re concept or passenger car or truck, production vehicles or otherwise, coming to the North American International Auto Show floor in January for the press days.
John McElroy: And I see you’ve got Willie G. Davidson, Giorgetto Giugiaro and Michael Graves as your three special design leaders. Tell us about that and the respective awards to each one.
Tom Gale: Well we’ve got three awards. The first one is basically an aesthetic and innovation award. The second award is concept implementation. And the third award is for functionality. And they’re all awards for design excellence. The three honorary jurors are a chance to honor three colleagues. We’ve got automotive educators, automotive designers and we really wanted people that are car people but in some other areas of the (design) business as well so we also have Michael Graves and Willie G. Davidson for that reason.
What we’ll do is we’ll divide up, but each designer will have a chance – and each person on the jury will have a chance – to participate in each award.
John McElroy: Good. Stewart, let’s turn to you for a moment and talk about Michelin Challenge Design. I think this has been going on for about five years now. It seems to be getting bigger all the time. Tell us about what you’re doing for the 2006 show and what you and the jury found when you reviewed all of the entries for Michelin Challenge Design.
Stewart Reed: Sure John. As you said it’s been going on for about five years and every year there is a different theme. Michelin has had quite a presence at the North American International Auto Show and a real commitment to the design community. So it has celebrated Italian design, French design, Chinese design and last year was a focus on German design. This year the focus is design for the California market with a particular emphasis on alternative powertrain vehicles.
Because of that theme we did all the judging for the competition this year in California. We hosted it at Art Center (College of Design) where I’m the Chairman of Transportation Design and had a great group of judges present. All Californians I might add. Peter Brock is actually from Washington, but Peter was there. And from England Professor Gordon Murray was also there with us.
Dr. Paul MacCready, who is, of course, famous for human powered and solar powered aircraft and electric vehicles, was also part of our judging team along with Freeman Thomas from Ford. Two other Arts Center people completed our judging team: Jason Hill who owns an independent consulting studio in California, and Shawn Collins, a senior Arts Center student. Together we were able to review some really interesting proposals from every corner of the earth. It was just amazing.
John McElroy: In fact my briefing paper here says that you received 200 entries from over 40 countries.
Stewart Reed: We did. We did. And it was just amazing to see this kind of diversity. And of course Michelin Challenge Design goes out to both professional studios and students. So we don’t differentiate. We look at the entire body of work and, of course, there’s no greater award than getting notoriety at the North American International Auto Show so what we selected will be on display in Michigan Hall and it’s always interesting.
This year because of the emphasis on telling the story about a proposed design for California and the focus on alternative powertrain there was a lot of very interesting storytelling. (The participants are) creating a scenario around their vehicle designs. It was quite open in terms of the (design) constraints for the competition, and, as a result, we saw some examples of public and large commercial transports, but most celebrate individual mobility, as you might expect.
John McElroy: And the Michelin Challenge Design stand is going to have two concept vehicles. Can you tell us about those?
Stewart Reed: Yes. One is a very dramatic sports car which is a hybrid drive train which has never been shown in North America. And the other is the progenitor to one of the popular hybrid electric vehicles that’s in the marketplace. It’s the concept that led to the final production vehicle.
John McElroy: Good. I want to get back to those in a moment but first Joel let’s get you involved in the discussion too. You’re part of the AutoWeek Design Forum which has got a huge draw at the Detroit show. This year they’re choosing Iconic Design as the theme. And I guess what I’d like to know is what does that mean and how does that tie in with Hyundai?
Joel Piaskowski: Well John I think iconic design is very broad and it’s going to be very interesting to hear the perspectives of iconic design from our guest speaker panel highlighted by Giorgetto Giugiaro of Italdesign-Giugiaro, also Peter Horbury from Ford, Grant Larson from Porsche, Dick Riegel of Thor Industries, Bob Wheeler of Airstream and John Lasseter of Pixar Films plus myself.
I think it’s going to be an interesting mix of how each of these individuals talks about iconic design and what it means to them and their companies. I think from the Hyundai perspective, obviously Hyundai is a very young company only making cars since the late ’60s and I think Hyundai is in a phase right now where we’re probably creating our icons yet we don’t know it yet.
Is there any one icon from Hyundai out there right now? Maybe not. Perhaps the Santa Fe is something that is recognizable but is it an icon yet? I’m not sure. But because of the use of the company I think if you look into the history books and see where iconic cars really made their impact, they were at least 20-25 years into their product development cycle and I think it really resulted from a lot of drive for innovation. And that’s what our chairman has really been pushing for – innovative vehicles with very expressive styling – and I think in the next 10 years we might just have one of those icons on our hands.
John McElroy: And when you say “expressive” can you go into that a little bit, especially from Hyundai’s standpoint?
Joel Piaskowski: Well it’s interesting if you consider some of the icons from the past, there have been a lot of expressive vehicles that were very well ahead of their time. Some may have been successful, some may not have been but because of their expressiveness or their aesthetic quality they really stood out in the marketplace. And just to name a few of them, going way back to the 1925 Auburn Boattail Speedster and then in 1938 the first Volkswagen Beetle. That vehicle is to cars what the Coke bottle is to soft drinks. It’s just such an iconic image that if you ask somebody to draw a car they’re probably going to draw a Beetle. It’s just one of those instantly recognizable shapes or profiles that nobody will ever forget.
And then you know following into the ’55 T-Bird or ’59 Cadillac, ’54 Mustang of course, getting into the 911 era, another icon of a vehicle. And again, all those vehicles did something new at that point in time and I think that’s why they’ve really garnered this category of iconic vehicles or iconic design.
John McElroy: Great. Well what I’d like to do now is get all of you started off on this design discussion that everybody else is calling in for. And remember, everyone else that would like to get in on this hit star and the number one and that will put you in the queue as it were to be able to ask a question. But let me start with the three designers and Tom I’ll throw this at you first, but I’d love to have Stewart and Joel jump in as well.
I just did a documentary on the history of product development and one of the interesting statistics that we came across was if you go back to 1960 there were about 60 different models in the United States market. Today there are over 400 models and Tom what I’m wondering, and would like to get your input on, is how does that affect you from design? I mean as you try to make your cars stand out from the competition how do you do that when there are so many models?
Tom Gale: Well it certainly makes it tougher John. There’s no question about it. In the days when, and I’m aging myself now, but when I was growing up, there were fewer (models) and you understood brands. You could identify everything immediately. And one of the things, and one of the challenges that it poses for designers is that you’re really struggling to make things break through. And we went through that all the way through the period of the ’80s and ’90s. What do you do to really make things stand out?
And so it means you’re going to have to have the courage to try some things. It also means you’re going to bank on a lot of rich heritage in terms of design and to extract those cues or visual elements that you can (then) really go to work on and emphasize what (will) becomes your design signature. And sometimes it means you borrow from others. I mean if it is something that is good, and I’ve never been averse to borrowing, stopping short of stealing.
John McElroy: When you say borrow something, you mean something from the past don’t you? Not something that somebody else might have out right now?
Tom Gale: Oh yeah, I mean there might be things that you would go after, but I don’t mind leap frogging. I mean if you’re looking at what someone (else) has done and you admire something there. We used to do the same thing with competition inside the studios. I say benchmark what the other guys are doing. This isn’t a competition. It doesn’t mean that if they’re doing something really great then maybe you can take it and go a step further because they are already locked down with what they’ve done with their proposal.
Now if you think that’s great or we collectively think that’s great, how do we take that and really make it leap frog to the next level and maybe we end up winning the competition by taking something that someone has? So you can look back, you can kind of look sideways, and you can look forward, but generally when we talk about looking back I think you’re really looking to find the heritage to become something that’s akin to the brand’s signature and that’s how you get the things that really leverage your brands.
John McElroy: Stewart, what’s your take on that? How do you make your product stand out when there are 400 other models trying to do the exact same thing?
Stewart Reed: I really echo what Tom said. I know there was a push for so many years to do a global car for manufacturers to get payback on something in global volumes. It seems like it’s never been terribly successful. And where we’re heading these days is toward an almost more regional design (focus). And that’s why I think it’s particularly interesting with Michelin’s Challenge is it picks a particular thematic or geographic area to focus the story around. We had a regional design (focus) versus global. (Whether it is) retro design or a trend toward personalization or customization, there seems to be a huge appetite for products that are much more personal.
So I tend to think that, and we teach a lot of this at Art Center, that there are materials and process technologies coming down the line that really can yield vehicles in lower volumes profitably.
John McElroy: Joel, what are your thoughts?
Joel Piaskowski: Well it’s interesting you said there were 70 brands.
John McElroy: There were 60 different models in 1960 or thereabouts, and today, and it depends on who’s counting and how you’re counting, but I think you can safely say there are about 400 today.
Joel Piaskowski: Now I understand why my father can rattle off the model years of every new model that they had back then and why I can’t do that these days. There’s a lot more to digest.
Tom brought up an interesting point about looking back in your history books to be able to leverage your brand identity. In the case of Hyundai there’s not much to look back to and as I mentioned earlier I think we’re in the midst of creating our design history which is really exciting. Certainly we’re benchmarking as Tom mentioned with what the competition is doing and in some cases following some of the package developments of other vehicles to get us to a point to be competitive and desirable in the marketplace. There’s definitely a lot of creativity happening in our studio that I think you’ll be seeing in a few years’ time and certainly starting with our concept cars that we will be unveiling this year.
It is exciting to think of creating our design history. We don’t know what it is yet but we are being a lot more exploratory with our form vocabulary and also looking at new ways of packaging vehicles. I think that is really what’s going to help set Hyundai (apart), giving us an edge in design direction and perhaps even being somewhat of a leader in design in the future.
John McElroy: You guys get all the fun. Hey we’ve got a number of people that are lining up to ask questions. Why don’t we start with Joe Szczesny from the Oakland Press?
Joe Szczesny: For all three?
John McElroy: However you want to do it.
Operator: Joe’s line has disconnected.
John McElroy: Let’s get Joe back on, but in the meantime let’s go to Paul Eisenstein from the Car Connection.
Operator: Paul’s line is open.
Paul Eisenstein: John good to be with you. Joel, Stewart, Tom – and Tom it’s always good to catch up with you. I want to ask you about a few things. You’ve been touching on some very important things and John I think you’re right about the proliferation of models that’s probably one of the biggest stories of the decade and I think the number is actually higher and going much higher. Some estimates were 100 new models introduced just last year.
So it raises a few different questions. Not only are we seeing more products coming out but we’re seeing potentially some limitations in terms of having to stick with platforms which certainly Tom is very familiar with. You’re talking about faster; you’re talking about having to do things I don’t want to say on the cheap, but certainly at lower cost. And I’d like to get you folks to talk a little bit about the conflicts between the limitations that are being put on you even as you’re being asked to do more than ever.
But if you’ll allow me I’d also like to get you to address one other thing which is to me one of the biggest changes in design in recent years which is that increasing focus on interiors which I think is arguably becoming even more of a design challenge than the exterior and I would like to open that up to all three of you if you would allow me.
Tom Gale: Okay, well, I’d be happy to start and I would encourage my colleagues to jump in. And Paul as always, it’s great to hear from you. The platforms on lowering costs and how you really struggle for the ultimate design solution, there’s no question that that becomes of paramount importance. But one thing I would comment on comes back to leveraging the importance of design.
And one of the things I held out for was to have advanced packaging or advanced engineering have some relationship to design and arguably even report to design. (Doing) that starts to change a few of the ground rules inside a lot of companies. But the reason I think it is important is so the designers understand where we’re going to go with it and understand what we’re going to do with packaging. We wouldn’t have today’s LX platform had we not had advanced engineering and that’s a bold statement and a somewhat arguable one perhaps.
But when you look at placement of the wheels, when you look at the overhangs, or when you look at what you want to do with a given size or class of vehicle, and try to make it as important as you can in any given segment, n I would submit that one of the ways you’re going to get there and leverage that vis-à-vis the competition is by having design very active early in the process. Interiors, it goes without saying, I mean when you start with packaging, you are starting with the interior. And I’m not talking about just the way it’s designed, not the surface finish. All of those things are important and they’re available to everybody. But if you can come up with one or two or hopefully more really significant things that people are going to perceive and recognize without having to be told through advertising then all of a sudden you’ve got a huge jump.
And again, I would open this up to my peers on the line here.
Joel Piaskowski: Tom I can’t disagree with you at all there. That’s very profound and very true because in my perspective history begins with design. If you look through the history books and the design of vehicles there was a lot of push historically from the design teams to develop the packaging, to get the new proportions and exciting surface quality from reproportioning engine compartments and seating configurations. The design teams were able to explore newer design solutions and proportions and get the excitement into the vehicles.
And it is also how this leads to iconic design. As I hinted earlier packaging, which is really at the forefront of driving innovation, helps to set up the possibility of a vehicle becoming iconic in a sense that it’s striving to be something new and different and trying to address an unmet need or a need that hasn’t been addressed yet in creating a new package and a new proportion.
Stewart Reed: Paul I think your two questions about platform and interior are great. I think that the very notion of platforms as a limiter is what seems to be changing. Platforms are being developed with an eye to flexibility now and a variety of models so I don’t think that platform thinking will be a limiter in the future. And it’s interesting because we do a car show every summer in mid-July at Art Center and the theme for this July for our car show is coach building. And what we’re going to do is celebrate the historic art of coach building and the way that so many motor manufacturers did these fantastically well-engineered chassis and how the great coach builders did some lovely variations on those chassis.
We’re going to then extend it into the contemporary time and how coach building is kind of re-emerging as a topic these days. So I think it’s a great, great topic to talk about. On the interior front I could not agree more, it’s so interesting you look at people at the show looking at some new models. And they look at it momentarily around the exterior and they always walk up and look inside. I mean they want to personally relate to the space that they’ll occupy in that vehicle and we’re placing a real emphasis on that at Art Center too.
In fact we are just opening a new color materials layout that’s going to be a resource for what’s changing in terms of materials and finishes and materials that can yield a safer interior and things like that. So it’s a great question.
John McElroy: Good. We’ve got Joe Szczesny back in the queue. Joe, it’s yours.
Joe Szczesny: Am I on John?
John McElroy: Yes.
Joe Szczesny: One question I had is the auto industry is kind of developing a global language? I mean all of, the forms all seem to come - an SUV is an SUV is an SUV, and a sports car is a sports car and you tend to vary them. Do you think there is an international language in the automobile industry, a divine language in the automobile industry now?
Stewart Reed: We sure talk about that in design education. I mean we’re educating young designers that end up going to companies all over the world and we talk about that. Are you able to uniquely design for the company and the personalities that you’re serving or are we speaking to do something that’s too homogenous? So we challenge them all the time about that.
Joel
Piaskowski: I
would certainly agree to some extent that there is a global aesthetic. A lot
of it, as Stewart mentioned, perhaps begins at the schools not that it’s
positive or negative comments. It’s just that wherever the training
happens that’s usually what the students pick up and carry with them
to wherever they go in their careers. But I think any designer worth his or
her salt will understand that and really try and drive innovation within their
own companies to either A, start with the packaging or B, finish up with the
surface language whether it’s interior or exterior.
Certainly I think there has been a push recently to try and break away and
find more distinctive brand identities or design identities within many of
the corporations. And I’m looking forward to seeing how that’s
going to pan out at the Detroit show.
Tom Gale: What I would add Joe is this: the reason we see the design language so common is this is the most open market in the world. You go to other places you’ll see unique things. I mean you might see unique things in India, you might see unique things in other places in the Far East, even in Africa. But all of the segments in volume happen here because everybody’s designing around the world for here basically and so that’s why I think that the language may seem a little more common than it might if you were standing somewhere else on the planet.
Joe Szczesny: One follow-up question. Which companies do you think, and Joel you can defer and demure on this question if you like. But for Tom and Stewart, which companies do you think have the most or do the best job with design now?
Stewart Reed: That’s a tough one.
Tom Gale: Do you want to start Stewart?
Stewart Reed: Actually, I’ll pass that one to you Tom.
Tom Gale: Well I don’t have any affiliation, but I don’t know that I’m going to answer you direct Joe, but I’ll do my best.
Joe Szczesny: Okay.
Tom Gale: I think there are certainly a lot of bright spots and we see a lot of what I would call role model design with some of the premium brands in Europe and that’s certainly something that I guess is deserved perhaps. I think there are a few players here in the U.S. that are, well, all the players in the U.S., are really doing a good job in some places. I wish I could say it was in every place. But I think they’re doing a good job in a number of places. And certainly in the Far East and Asia Pacific we’re seeing a huge growth in both design awareness and execution.
I mean just about everywhere you look so I think it’s really tough and I’m not just staying away from this for any kind of political reason because I don’t have any. But I think you’re seeing the opportunity because there are so many different things. There’s an opportunity to shine in places but it’s really difficult to say that one just continues to pervade because the most successful – and the ones that you talk about all the time in the press as the most successful – sometimes aren’t the brightest lights in terms of design.
So I think over time you’ve got to do a good job and you’ve got to do a good job in every area and all of that ultimately builds. But I think that’s why you’re going to see some of this change too. Because those that arguably place design with a greater importance are going to rise to the top. So I would leave it there and now offer my colleagues a chance to answer.
Stewart Reed: I think one, in terms of category. I think one thing that makes it easier to do something that’s very distinctive is when you’re dealing in a segment. Let’s say where notable sports and GT car manufacturers are, where you’re not trying to hit such huge target. You’re doing something that is very distinctive and it’s intended to be. Porsche and Ferrari, for example, do some magnificent things.
Some of the new specialty cars from Audi are low volume but some brilliant design execution and very different from one another but it’s because they’re able to be focused on a tighter market which is quite an advantage. It’s hard when you’re driven by requirements that put it through what our friend Tom Matano used to call the filter factor. You’ve got corporate filters in so many areas that drive you towards high volumes and you lose personality as a result.
My wife and I were just in Paris four weeks ago and we saw a lot of the tiny cars and Smart cars and so on not yet available in the U.S. market. To see them in an environment like that with the limitations for space and parking is really quite delightful, to see a tiny little urban car, and the potential for something like that. It’s very unique and distinctive and fits that environment quite well.
Joel Piaskowski: Just to add to this a little bit, from a global perspective and certainly on different continents, I think Chrysler under Tom’s direction a few years back certainly started the influx of design leadership. And on the European front, Renault is very pivotal in design leadership in stepping out and trying to be a little more exploratory. But globally I think BMW under Mr. Bangle’s direction, whether you like that direction or not, has allowed many other companies to jump in the water of design risk and say, “Wow BMW is doing it, that gives us a lot more flexibility to be more creative and exploratory in our design direction.”
John McElroy: Interesting observation there, Joel. Next up in the queue we have Eric Mayne from Wards.
Eric Mayne: Good afternoon everyone. Simple question - where do we find today the heart and soul of American design? Is it in California or is it in Detroit?
Stewart Reed: You’re baiting me on that one because I’d like all of these young people listening to come to Art Center.
Eric Mayne: Well it just seems like auto makers are pouring a lot of resources into setting up design studios in California. There must be a reason. However, certainly I don’t think you can dispute that the Detroit design studios have done some good work in the last few years as well.
Stewart Reed: Yeah, I mean we obviously like to promote the fact that Southern California is a great place. It’s a great diverse marketplace to study with its social diversity and economic diversity in Southern California. That’s led to some 15 studios in Southern California that we like to think from the perspective of Art Center College of Design that it really is certainly a great design center. It’s certainly not the only one but it’s a great one.
Tom Gale: I would just add that Nissan, Hyundai and others are opening design studios here in Detroit.
Eric Mayne: Right.
Tom Gale: And there’s still an awful lot of the effort that happens here because so much of the rest of the action is here. And design has to be central to what’s happening in the rest of the company, what’s happening in the rest of the business. I admire and I love California. I helped set up a California studio for us and it’s incredibly important. I would agree with what Stewart said earlier; however, to be really successful design has got to be part of the fabric of the company and if that major post is somewhere in the world then that is where design is going to have to be in my opinion or at least the leadership of design.
Eric Mayne: Thank you.
John McElroy: Joel, do you care to join in on that? I mean here’s a CCS guy who’s in California now.
Joel Piaskowski: Yeah, I’m pretty much a Detroit boy that relocated to the west coast. But what is interesting out here is if you go back in history I think design first started in Southern California with Harley Earl and he took design back to Detroit, as Tom mentioned, to be where all the action was, where all the corporate offices were. So there are points to both sides. I think it’s very exciting to be in Southern California because you see just such a diversity of automobiles out here. It is mind boggling. And every weekend there’s some type of car show going on.
So if you’re at a loss for inspiration you just go through the pages and find out what’s going on in the automotive world and go visit a car show and get your blood pumped up again.
Eric Mayne: So you don’t see California displacing Detroit as the center of inspiration.
Tom Gale: I don’t know that it’s just Detroit. Joel might have to go to Pusan. Bangle’s got to go to Munich and those companies that are in Detroit are going to be here in Detroit. So it’s a worldwide thing. And if I can just throw in a commercial, one of the reasons I think Detroit is important is it’s like déjà vu. It goes back to the 1980s and we had just a dealer show here in Detroit. And a bunch of us got together and we said what are we going to do to make this thing happen?
And we said well let’s start doing our introductions. Let’s start doing concept cars, let’s start doing those things and we’ll stick together. And I know we came back and you don’t talk to your competitors about what you’re doing but we started introducing stuff. Well then pretty soon everybody started introducing stuff. And then we, instead of doing one we did two or we did three or more.
And now you’re looking back and you’re saying gosh, we’re having 60 odd introductions right here at NAIAS and I think the reason is not so much that the center of design is here, it’s that this is a place where you can’t miss. This is a place where you’re going to have to introduce your things. And there are a few places like that around the world.
Joel Piaskowski: Good point.
Eric Mayne: Thank you. Thank you all very much.
John McElroy: And next up in the queue we have Bob Gritzinger from AutoWeek.
Bob Gritzinger: Good afternoon gentlemen. I just need to do a brief correction to something Joel mentioned earlier about the AutoWeek Design Forum.
Joel Piaskowski: Okay.
Bob Gritzinger: I’m just writing this up today so we have a late substitution for anybody who’s writing about the AutoWeek Design Forum. For Grant Larson from Porsche we will have instead Stephen Murkett, spelled M U R K E T T. He is also a Porsche designer. Apparently (Larson) had a conflict. So my question deals with I guess we’re seeing this wide spectrum from mini cars to muscle cars and I’d like to know how you, if you can tell us across that spectrum, what’s the defining trend that you’re watching or that we should be watching for that’s coming in the next year, two or three years down the road?
Stewart Reed: I’ll jump in on that one first if you want Bob. We talk about that a lot at Art Center. I think there’s been a tendency to think of what is this year’s trend and…
Bob Gritzinger: And then it’s too late right?
Stewart Reed: Yeah, so it’s not a singular, it’s not a singular trend we don’t think but looking ahead and we’ve even talked about this with Michelin Challenge Design, we saw a lot of the student work that came in for example and certainly a California focus and a focus on alternative powertrains but a lot of interest in vehicle safety as well. So that really did resonate with us at Art Center because we’ve been pushing for the notion of continuing to fuel the passion for creativity and the design process but never to lose sight of the kind of responsibility or the conscience that a designer should have for just a range of things to help the human condition when it comes to vehicle design.
So it’s sort of the two-fold thing of safety and sustainability we think and that goes across all categories whether it’s tiny urban vehicles or commercial transport. It really applies rather universally to those things.
Tom Gale: Just one comment I would say is a lot of times it’s those things that break the trend in a meaningful way that become the most significant and the ones that are the most talked about. So the trends are there. I mean I think any one of us could talk to you about trends in terms of vocabulary of forms and all of that. And it’s very important. But I think the things that creatively break the trend to some extent or shade the segments or try to find something that’s unique or new generally become those things that are the most noteworthy.
Joel Piaskowski: Okay. And I would certainly agree with that, Tom, because I think the overall trend in today’s market is that of trying to find individual identities because there is such a broad market base here. You really have to stand out from the rest of the crowd to have your own look, your own reason for being in the marketplace. I think one of the vehicles that really helped exemplify that was the Dodge Ram when it was introduced. It really helped put a stake hold in the marketplace for Dodge, not only in the pickup truck market, but it helped establish a face and a design identity with the cross hair grills.
So just being able to get in the marketplace with a bold design direction and statement is I think one of the biggest trends.
Bob Gritzinger: Thanks. Good. Thanks guys.
John McElroy: Good. Next up we have an author of a design book, Matt DeLorenzo from Road & Track.
Matt DeLorenzo: Following up on that previous question, I mean what area is really primed for the next breakthrough in design? Is it, and is it as a designer more rewarding to be able to do something say in an existing segment like midsize family cars or full size SUVs or is it in areas like the new B segment cars that we’re going to start to see here pretty quick?
Joel Piaskowski: If I can start with that one and go back to one of the things that Stewart mentioned when you can design vehicles for a more specialized market. I think that’s where the fun and creativity comes in. Or where you’re trying to be inventive and to bring a new type of vehicle into the marketplace that gives you a lot more freedom of expression because A, you’re not having to meet the needs of 200,000 people annually and B, you probably have a little more freedom with the architecture to style surfaces and to package the vehicle in a different manner to create something more exciting and distinctive.
Stewart Reed: Yeah I think I see a growing interest in rather small vehicles. I think the Akino concept vehicle that was shown at the Tokyo show from Chrysler Pacifica is an example of a relatively small urban vehicle that’s really unique and distinctive in terms of its interior, people placement and is a rather luxurious interesting small vehicle. So I think that could well be why we’re seeing that. We saw a lot of evidence in Michelin Challenge Design for that kind of vehicle and we see a lot of students at Art Center who are testing the segment that would be between motorcycles and pretty small urban cars.
Matt DeLorenzo: So, in other words, what you’re saying is that if you have a fixed architecture these days you’re much more limited. But Tom could probably address this about cab forward. I mean how often does the opportunity come along to change the architecture and change the styling?
Tom Gale: I think, Matt, you have to change it. I mean when we did cab forward it’s remarkable because you could see the differences and we could prove it with dimensions I guess and so that’s significant. I would also agree and echo some of what Stewart and Joel just said. I think when you look at the whole marketplace right now it strikes me that there’s probably a chance to be remarkable down in the smaller ends of the segment by either taking a look at a new twist on how you meet the market or taking a new twist on something that becomes significant to the consumer that they haven’t necessarily seen before.
I think that’s maybe a way of doing it. But to go back we ask ourselves the question, “What do you do after cab forward?” Well it was kind of cab backwards. I mean that was how LX was born. We said, “Just when you get all of the engineers and everybody lining up to say okay, here’s going to be the next version of what you want to do,” and, of course, all they want to do is make everything they’ve already got better. They don’t really want to change anything. And so we said, “Okay, we’re going to change everything.”
And we said, “We want to do rear wheel drive.” They replied, “You want to do rear wheel drive?” I said, “Yeah, we want to do rear wheel drive.” “You line up all the parts and all the pieces and then start to show me all this cost and everything else and I’ll show you the benefits. But more importantly I’ll show you can do something remarkable.” And I think that there’s going to be the same thing happening down at the bottom end (of the vehicle market).
John McElroy: Very interesting.
Matt DeLorenzo: Okay. Great. Thanks.
John McElroy: Just to remind anybody who might want to have a question or come back with a follow up, press star and the number one and you’ll get in the queue. But right now we’ve got John McCormick up.
John McCormick: Hello gentlemen. Good to be with you. I just wanted to ask you about one area of the market that seems to be expanding and that is the crossover section and as a subset of that, hatchbacks. I’m curious whether you feel that this gives designers the potential to be a bit more expressive than they are perhaps with conventional SUVs or minivans? And in terms of hatchbacks what’s interesting across North America is it has appreciated hatchbacks but we’re seeing the Dodge Caliber in particular coming in which is essentially a hatchback but kind of disguised as a fastback sedan.
Could you sort of comment about those two trends?
Tom Gale:
Do
you want to go first Stewart or do you want me to?
Stewart Reed: Go ahead Tom, or Joel.
Joel Piaskowski: Go ahead Tom.
Tom Gale: Okay. I think crossovers are going to be important as a trend and eventually when the whole market starts to get crossed over, crossovers are going to be the higher volume. But I really think the functionality of five doors and hatchbacks when you look at what’s happened in Europe over the years where they’ve had fuel prices that we’re approaching now. It just makes so much sense when you’ve got a family and you’re trying to take off on vacation. We used to watch people from the Netherlands taking off on vacation and going to the South of France and they’ve got all of their stuff.
And when you try to do this in a vehicle that by necessity has to be a relatively small vehicle you start to look for other solutions and I just think that’s a fairly natural trend. I think it’s going to get here. I think we need to jump start it frankly.
Stewart Reed: Yeah, I totally agree with that, Tom. I agree with the notion of crossovers. Every time there’s an identifiable segment it begs for the opportunity to combine it with another segment. So I think the vehicles that somewhat defy current categories are great for utility and space. I’ve seen more proposals from our students on vehicles that are sort of sport wagons and hatchbacks that have real flexibility, even a changeable rear profile striation.
So they’re quite sporty in one mode but for another use they’re capable of carrying a lot of gear for example.
Joel Piaskowski: Tom, I think this goes back to one thing you hinted at earlier that the Europeans have known for decades about how functional hatchbacks are. I think in North America we all want that same functionality, we’re just trying to help disguise it in an appealing manner that it doesn’t say this is a conventional hatchback. I should say crossing over or crossing between the boundaries of one vehicle type to another.
It also provides a lot more opportunity to define new design directions and be more exploratory. So it does give you a lot more creative opportunities for design solutions and one of the things that we talk about in the studio here is most of the newness that you see in a vehicle will happen in the rear sail panel area. That includes the DLO (Daylight Opening) and the angle of the backlight and the proportion and mass of the D-pillar surface.
And with these crossover vehicles you get a lot more opportunity than you do with traditional vehicles - sedans and coupes for example.
John McCormick: Very interesting. Thank you gentlemen.
John McElroy: And I’ve got one sort of follow-up and Stewart I’d like to start with you since you mentioned alternative powertrains. Where do you all fall on whether a hybrid should look like a hybrid or blend in with everything else?
Stewart Reed: Well what’s sort of comical about that market right now is that the vehicles that shout hybrid and shout that they are different are the ones that seem to have a waiting list. And there seems to be a real demand for people to make their own social statement about the environment. The ones that are kind of stealth hybrids are readily available so it’s sort of interesting. I think as it moves ahead you’re going to see alternative powertrains in all kinds of vehicles, vehicles that are actually quite high performance and simulating to drive and intended for real self expression.
So I think there’ll be a point where the social responsibility of a hybrid is just not this unique statement as something that’s quite universal across a range of vehicle types.
Joel Piaskowski: I would second that. As Stewart mentioned about the expressiveness of vehicles that are conveying the message this is a hybrid vehicle, those are the ones with the waiting list. Go back to the GM Autonomy concept car. That was a very exciting looking vehicle brought to us by the fact of the technology. You can use technology to go back to the founding basis of creating a new package layout. That’s where you can really use the power of design and technology to give you a winning vehicle in the marketplace.
Tom Gale: I would only add that I think it’s really exciting for a design any time there’s a period of change or a period of upheaval we can ring our hands or we can look at it as an opportunity. And frankly there’s always been an opportunity because things are always changing.
John McElroy: Good. Joe Szczesny you are up again.
Joe Szczesny: One more follow up question. What are some of the limits that you see on designers today? What are some of the three or four biggest limiters on the more expressive designs today?
Joel Piaskowski: From my standpoint being in the studio on a daily basis, it has a lot to do with production methodology and what the assembly plants are able to do and tying that in with the never ending concerns of cost.
Stewart Reed: I think another one is some of the constraints like vehicle safety for example end up dictating a lot about the interior of a vehicle. I think that there are some potential areas to explore radically different approaches that might even challenge some of the ways that the standards are developed right now and really get some quantum improvements in interior safety for vehicles.
Tom Gale:
I
would really echo where Stewart’s going with that. I think regulation
in some cases has been very valuable and very helpful and certainly great
for protecting all of us and our families. I also think there’s a huge
risk with regulation because a lot of times it doesn’t recognize the
things that can be done and it begins to limit design and limit the solutions.
And it’s the real danger of having too much regulation.
Stewart Reed: Or the wrong kind of regulation even.
Tom Gale: Yeah or just regulation in general. I mean if you want to plan to do anything and then you all of a sudden think of the prospect of having to have Washington do that for you that gets pretty daunting to me. And I just think that we’re probably at the point where we’ve probably got more regulation than we maybe need for a while.
Joel Piaskowski: Certainly I would agree with what you guys are talking about. But in some respects you could argue that regulation also spawns innovation. And because you go through the ugly period with the regulations aspect, that also drives, I think, innovation to get away from the demons of regulation.
Tom Gale: That’s a good point, Joel.
Stewart Reed: Yep.
John McElroy: Well very good. I’d like to remind everybody listening in that the audio that you’ve just been listening to will be available I believe later in the week. We’ll get message to you. Also here are a couple of reminders for everyone. The Michelin Challenge Design press conference is scheduled Tuesday, January 10th of media days in Michigan Hall at 11:25 a.m. The EyesOn Design Awards are just an hour behind that at 12:30 p.m. also in the Michigan Hall. And the AutoWeek Design Forum will be Wednesday, January 11th at the Cobo Center Riverview Ballroom.
I want to thank all three of our designers here: Tom Gale, Stewart Reed, Joel Piaskowski from Hyundai and the good conversation. Thank you for participating.
